Introduction and Guest Welcome

 [00:00:00] 

Laurence Pratt: Hello and welcome to an episode of the ADHD Goals podcast.

I have a great guest for you today. Her name is Stephanie Ward. She’s the founder of the spicy. Brain Collective, which is a vibrant, free community for neurodivergent entrepreneurs, and she helps them smash their business goals with business services, coaching, mentoring, and consultancy. So welcome to the show, Stephanie.

How you doing?

Stephanie Ward: Not bad for whatever day it is. I keep forgetting when people say it to me, how are you? I say, not bad for it. And then forget what day it is. But I feel like that’s just ADHD who.

Laurence Pratt: I wonder on which day it would be bad.

Stephanie Ward: I mean, yeah,I’m liable to get my own birthday in all honesty. So, that would be pretty depressing, I guess.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah. 

Challenges of Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs

Laurence Pratt: so, I mean, I’m fascinated to [00:01:00] talk to you today about the support that you give to, neurodivergent entrepreneurs. my, myself run my own business and I, a lot of people that I speak to, and do coaching with, they are also running their own businesses, and I think that’s a very typical thing for people specifically with ADHD. they. They struggle. You get overwhelmed in jobs and at work and they think, the grass is gonna be greener when I start my own business. But then start your business and there’s a whole world of fun that

Stephanie Ward: Yeah, I mean we, when we start, when we do a job and we are good at a job, we just do that job. I used to work in pharmacy and my job was get the box of pills, stick the sticker on. Give it to the pharmacist and they give it to the patient. I ended up getting drawn into a lot of administrative tasks because my brain likes that.

But the thing is that if you’ve been like a business consultant as, or like a marketing consultant as part of a bigger company, your job is the marketing.

Laurence Pratt: is not procurement. It’s not invoicing, it’s not managing contract, it’s not building a website. But when you start [00:02:00] a business, you realize that actually that there’s all of these components that was somebody else’s job.

Stephanie Ward: But when you are the person in charge of the business, it’s all your job. That’s your responsibility. And I think a lot of us, we go into entrepreneurship, into self-employment and then realize how much of the backend stuff we actually hate.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: But that’s where I come into my own. ’cause that’s my favorite thing in the world.

The backend of business is one of my favorite things. And I get excited by other people’s backends. And yes, I know how that sounds and I will continue to say it that way because I don’t have a filter.

Laurence Pratt: Well, the, this is the thing though. I mean, I,similar to you, like I’ve learned a lot of that stuff in, in my, previous, work life and. But from, and like similar to yourself, I can sit and do it for somebody else, but when it comes to doing it for me, there’s that whole RSD thing of,sort of putting yourself out there and saying, please value me.

and it’s really hard. and yeah, so that, that’s one of the toughest things that I’ve found [00:03:00] is, I know how to set all these things up and do them, but you know. It’s just that, that one little element of, you know what, if they reject me though and say

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: work with me.

The Ketchup Phenomenon

Stephanie Ward: I have a name for this. So I actually call this the ketchup phenomenon, right?

Laurence Pratt: wow.

Stephanie Ward: if me and you go for a dinner, okay, we are gonna sit down in weather spoons because there’s are weather spoons everywhere.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: we are going to grab our dinner. It’s gonna be fish and chips Friday. You are gonna get your fish and chips.

I’ll get mine. And you’ll be like, oh, I didn’t ask for any ketchup. And I’ll be like, yeah, can I get some ketchup? And they’ll bring you the red sauce and you’ll squirt it on your chips and live happily ever after.

Laurence Pratt: If I have got no catch up for my chips, I will sit there because I don’t wanna be the problem.

Stephanie Ward: And I think this comes from that piece of work that, I think it was William Dodson did, where it was, we get 10,000 more corrective messages before the age of 10. Or 20,000 more corrective messages. Sorry. So we’re getting all of these things that tell us we’re wrong, we’re a problem, we’re a burden. So we don’t wanna put ourselves out there and be anything other than just the perfect, compliant human being because we’ve been taught we’re a problem.

So we won’t speak up and ask for us for things for ourselves. But if someone else needs it, [00:04:00] we know how it feels to be in need of something. So we’ll put us, put ourselves out as superheroes and we’ll do that for our friends. But I call, I’ve even trademarked that because I think the ketchup phenomenon is a really cool concept I’ve had.

I’ve got a whole bottle of ketchup in my branding now because of this.

Laurence Pratt: That’s brilliant. I know,I like that. yeah, I mean, I think it’s, the power of, using. Everyday analogies is really important to sort of remember and like, just if it’s like little things that you recognize and catch yourself doing, if you’ve got that little bit of a story to remember, you go, ah, yeah, I need to fix that.or work on that. so, so before we get into, All the story about, how you help,people with ADHD and neurodivergent people, with their businesses. 

Stephanie’s ADHD Journey

Laurence Pratt: Can you tell the listeners a little bit about your own experience with ADHD?

Stephanie Ward: Absolutely. So, I guess it goes back to when my little boy was quite small. So, I have a 12-year-old or 13-year-old. Oh my God, he was 13 [00:05:00] last week. Bless him. So I have a teenager. I know I don’t look old enough. I definitely wasn’t old enough to actually be responsible for the human. My son had a lot of things when he was about one that weren’t quite developing normally, and so we, went down the route of like speaking to the health visitor and they didn’t really give me any useful feedback until I spoke to my child minder and she said, I think your son’s autistic.

And so that kind of opened up this whole pathway in terms of what is neurodivergence. Why was my child got this, what did I do wrong? And I went like, I didn’t know anything about autism and a DH ADHD at the time I was a 22-year-old who had a 1-year-old baby who did not know. Anything about that side of world?

My experience of autism, or ADHD was, there was a guy in my class when I was in middle school who was on Ritalin, and he, his behavior was quite extreme and that was all I knew about ADHD autism. I knew there was a guy who was removed in year six and never came back and we don’t know where he went.

And it turns out special school was the answer.

so that was kind of my frame of reference and I assumed that I had done something as a young parent that had [00:06:00] caused my child to have a difference. as the years went by, he got the autism diagnosis when he was six. They were told, he was told he didn’t have ADHD.

but when I’ve had like quite a lot of surgery on my pelvis and stuff, which is a whole other kettle of fish, but when that was all dealt with, I was like, I’m gonna have to go back to work. And I started doing a bit of freelancing when I was pregnant. So I kinda went back into that and I started attracting clients who were like autistic, ADHD.

And I thought it was because they were like, oh, you’ve got a child that has these challenges, so you get it. And it wasn’t until there was one day I was talking to one of my clients about, how I was, had this like sort of influx of clients who had neurodivergent conditions and she went, well, when were you diagnosed?

I was like, what? with hip dysplasia? ’cause that’s what my physical thing. She went No, with ADHD. I went, I ain’t got that. She went, oh honey. So this client is a, diagnostic practitioner down in Warrington, and she was like, you need to get that looked at you. You almost certainly have ADHD. If you presented in my clinic, I would diagnose you.

And I like, with Jack having his autism diagnosis, I thought, well, I might have a bit [00:07:00] of autism, and when I, after that conversation, kind of looked at myself, I started reading, and we all do this, we all read about what is ADHD, what does it look like? I went down the whole TikTok rabbit hole, like we all do that.

And I realized there was a lot of things. I was like, oh, this isn’t what other people do. This isn’t how other people think. And it got quite dark for me quite quickly, if I’m honest, because I had this realization of like, I processed all of my childhood challenges, which were quite profound challenges.

Only realized that, and I had ADHD and I went down this really dark spiral and there was one day I was talking to one of my clients like, you need to see someone soon. You can’t wait on the NHS for this. And she referred me to a private practitioner. And there was three weeks between booking the assessment and attendant.

And in those three weeks I bought a cock, a spaniel puppy, knowing that I’m allergic to dogs,

Laurence Pratt: Wow.

Stephanie Ward: can’t walk very far, and have a sensory issue with picking a poop in a bag. And so when I went to this appointment, I said to the doctor, like. Like this happened. He went, oh, and he asked me a few questions [00:08:00] and obviously went through my, like paperwork I’ve sent in and he’s like, would you like to try Concerta or El Vans first?

Laurence Pratt: Uhhuh.

Stephanie Ward: I was like, oh, is that, does that mean I’ve got it. And he is like, yeah, okay. And I was diagnosed autistic six months later and that in itself was an experience because that was NHS and I, I went to the appointment and I recognized the woman I’m thinking, and she went, Mrs. Ward. I’ve been watching you, but Sports Day for the last two years, we both know how this is gonna go.

It turns out his son was in my son’s class,

Laurence Pratt: Oh, right.

Stephanie Ward: so I was like, cool. So I felt more comfortable because I wasn’t masking, so I was pretty much lying on the floor, flapping around, stemming for half the assessment. I didn’t even realize that’s what stemming was. But she started talking to me about my business and I started like flapping my hands and she was like, no, just look at what you’re doing.

I said, oh, that’s. That’s a thing. but yeah, I think for me, like realizing, having this sticker on the box that said, you are you are not a problem. There’s something different in you that means you have different problems to other people was like, [00:09:00] oh.

Laurence Pratt: And it completely changed the game because having lived with this difference for all of those years, 32 years of living, not knowing that this wasn’t a normal experience for most people made me realize that actually like.

Stephanie Ward: I had so much potential if that’s what I’ve managed to function at without medication and understanding myself, what on earth was I gonna do Now? I had this magic toolbox of medicine and I’ll never forget my first day on meds. Like I literally, it wasn’t that my brain went qui quiet. It’s almost like I’ve been given a roadmap for my.

It’s like I could see all the things in my brain just like normal, but I could pick things out and I could prioritize them and I could work in a strategic way and in order, and it was like, it wasn’t a yellow brick wall anymore. It was a yellow brick road again. I was like, holy hell, this is, it was really exciting and I just think, my son then was obviously subsequently diagnosed and I, before I understood ADHD, while I had quite strong views around medication.

I think, I’ve got friends who have like had a DH ADHD diagnosis since childhood who felt [00:10:00] overmedicated who’ve explained these feelings of watching the world go by and not being excited by it.

Laurence Pratt: And I was like, well, I don’t want that for my kid. But when I realized what the right dose of medication actually doesn’t help with, why would I not want him to have that experience of life?

Why wouldn’t I want him to feel good?

yeah. No,I’m currently going through, the pro I’ve just started, in the last few months, taking medication and I’m going through that process of, tweaking it to get it right and, yeah,it’s. It’s interesting because I haven’t yet had that sort of, that moment where you go, oh, what this is how my brain is supposed to work. So it is, it’s gone up a little bit, but also then I had did have some, sort of feelings of anxiety as well. So it’s kind of just trying to find that balance of, the right one.

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: certainly felt more focused and like, my chair and get things done. but yeah, so I mean it, but that’s the thing I suppose is really just trying to find. What is right for you? And it can be make a world [00:11:00] of difference.

Stephanie Ward: Yeah, absolutely. I think having people around you who have similar experiences, it gives you that sounding board. So you know that like it’s that we need that validation. Right?

Laurence Pratt: I think one of the biggest fats me outside of the meds. Was having a network of people because I already had them. They were already my clients, they found me.

Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: I had this network that already existed of people that I could say, did you feel like this on day one? And did you have this experience? And I had that immediately. I was very lucky that I kind of did it backwards to what a lot of people do. I had the network before I knew what was going on with my brain.

So when it, when I realized this is ADHD, I already had the support network to fall straight into.

Laurence Pratt: So when you said during that, that, you went down a, into a bit of a dark place when you first realized,

Stephanie Ward: was ADHD, but so, so what was the turning point in terms of feeling better? What was it starting the medication or was it just sort of an acceptance or.

I think it was getting the diagnosis and the validation. I think, so I, when I say a dark [00:12:00] spiral, sort of, my mental health deteriorated massively because there was a lot of. Because I’ve had a lot of therapy for various things that happened in childhood. It was almost like, I was like, oh my God, I’m I gonna have to do all that work again.

I felt like I was gonna have to repeat the work. And this is something that I say to people when like, I had a lady just today, in my network get diagnosed. I’m like, congratulations. Just so you know you are gonna go into the dark place. Because we start to think about things that have happened in our life and then think, and I had ADHD on top of that and oh my God, how did nobody notice this?

How did nobody realize this? How did nobody spot? That I was like this. And, the week after I was diagnosed, I’ll never live this down. I went through my Facebook and found all of my old managers from when I used to work in pharmacy and voice noted them all to tell them how they failed me.

Right. And I thought, that’s fine. I forgot that one of them had a sister at my son’s school, like one of the parents. So that was really awkward seeing her and her mom and her sister on sports day. yeah, that was deeply uncomfortable. But the thing is that, Now I know that I did that. I warn other people that’s coming ’cause like you are gonna feel all the feelings.

I think the turning point for me was I got the diagnosis and I [00:13:00] continued down a little bit just because I think, knowing that I was right, there was a bit of rage came out. It’s almost like grieving for the time that you. Have not had this frame of reference. it’s like if I had known 10 years ago that I had ADHD, what my, what would my business be like now?

Do you know what I mean? How much bigger would things be? How much more impact would I have been having? I can’t change that. I can’t go back and change the way things were. And I think that’s where the sort of negative feelings for me came from. But once I got on meds and realized I can do this, I can get this on track, I can make an impact, I can change lives.

That felt really good for me.

Laurence Pratt: I think by about the march when I was on full dose and starting to really settle in on the meds, that’s, I’ve considered, I was diagnosed in the January, that’s when I started to really sort of get my module back, get that momentum back and actually start to feel like it doesn’t matter.

Stephanie Ward: I can’t change the past. What I need to do is look at where I’m going because I’ve got so much I wanna do right now. And that’s what’s kept me going ever since.

Starting a Business with ADHD

Stephanie Ward: So, so tell me, then how you got into [00:14:00] doing what you are doing. So, I mean, you mentioned obviously you, you, you were attracting, Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: neurodivergent clients,but yeah. Tell me how you got to that place in the first place.

Stephanie Ward: Yeah, so when I was pregnant with my little boy, I had something called synthesis, pubic dysfunction, which actually, because of my hip dysplasia was worse. So I couldn’t walk around and I was bored rigid. I didn’t realize that’s an a d thing, being horribly bored and like, I couldn’t focus on anything.

My ex-husband was like. Do some freelancing work. Go on this website and find something to do. And that’s what I did and it kept me going throughout maternity leave. It kept me going, when I had financial hardship when my son was a baby, but I kind of left it behind when he was about two because of his neurodivergence and the impact that was having on other areas of my life.

But when I went, sort of when I knew I had to go back to work, I knew that standing up for long periods of time wasn’t gonna be suitable for me anymore. So pharmacy was off the cards. I don’t have other qualifications. I don’t have a degree. So I was like, I need to find something that works. And my friend Nikki said, you should be a virtual assistant.

And. I [00:15:00] can’t tell you what I said to her because you’d have to censor it, but essentially I’d rather, I said I’d rather poop in my hands and clap, but not in as friendly words. She went, I know you would, but do it anyway. So I put something on Facebook. I was like, these are things that I can do. Do you need a person to do that in your business?

And I got hired within 24 hours by a friend of mine, Liz. And Liz is one of my favorite people in the world because she gave me an opportunity within a charity that she worked for as well, which meant that I could explore what I liked. And I think, when we have neurodivergent conditions.

Especially, we have things that make our brains light up and things that don’t. And what I loved about the opportunity l Liz gave me was that. I could try a bit of everything at that charity. ’cause charities, it’s very much put your finger in the hole that’s got the most water coming in. So it’s like you run a big boat and everything’s on fire and you just put me fingers in the holes and I gotta see which holes gave me the most dopamine.

And I developed my skillset in so many ways. Like I, I can’t ever thank her enough for the things that she did to help me because that changed my life.

so then I started because I was obviously. With her charity. They are a learning disability charity. So I’ve got a few more leads from that and I’ve got a few sort of [00:16:00] entrepreneurs come my way who, are like, oh, I might be a little bit, neurodivergent.

I’ve got, I see that your child’s like that. I think you might be able to help. And that’s just kind of how it built up. And it was just all word of mouth is the thing because what I’ve learned about. Sort of neurodivergence especially, is that when you do something good for them, they become your most fiercest offender.

If a neurodivergent person loves you, they will love you with their whole ass, both cheeks. You get the whole person, and that’s exactly what happened with my business. I have had Liz and my friend Anna, who have championed Mason’s day one because they saw things that I couldn’t see in myself,

Laurence Pratt: and my business grew organically.

Stephanie Ward: So the first year, I turned over about two and a half grand, considering when I was only open for six months of the year. I’m pretty happy with that. The second year, I turned over about 40 grand. I was like, oh, this is amping up. And my goal was only ever to make as much money as my boyfriend at the time was making,

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: so he was making 42,000 pound.

I just wanted to break even. I wanted to pay equally into that. And then the following year, because of this access to work scheme, obviously the. Gives people grants for support [00:17:00] people. a lot more. ADHD and autistic entrepreneurs were tapping into that. And because I was already, helping some people with those grants, they were kind of meeting each other through Facebook groups and recommending me.

So I started getting a lot of referrals for that. I’m sitting there, so, around. September, 2022. I’m thinking this is like, this is my second end of my second year. I’m like, this is picking up really fast and I’m gonna end up back registered. I thought I need to be limited. I need to put my company in more of a structure.

So I rang my accountant to roll, lovely guy, and I was like, mate, I think I’m gonna be back registered in the next 12 months. He went, oh honey, are you sure? 

Rapid Business Growth and Hiring Challenges

Stephanie Ward: In that 12 month period, I went from 38 grand to 600,000 pounds. So yes, to roll, I was gonna go about registered.so it.

Laurence Pratt: not expecting

Stephanie Ward: I wasn’t either.

Laurence Pratt: so

Stephanie Ward: I still wake up and panic every day that happened.

Laurence Pratt: how so? Now I’m, now, I’m now. That’s got me thinking. So, but were you trading money for time at that point or were you selling something else that allowed you [00:18:00] to escalate that,

Stephanie Ward: So, no, I was still trading for money for time, and I still am. I just have six people employed by me now who do the work as well. So I had to recruit. And that was a whole journey in itself because I knew that because of what I do, that I needed people who think like me essentially. And it turns out that’s not easy to find.

so the first person I hired, didn’t work out after five weeks. Unfortunately, that was a thing. The second person I hired. Was worse. The third person I had was the lovely Abby, and she’s still here to this day, and Abby is incredible, by the way. She didn’t realize that her brain was spicy, so she got here and she was like, oh.

Oh dear. So she’s really good with, design work. So she, I’d actually stalked her on LinkedIn and been watching our design work and stuff. I was like, I need some of that. I need someone who can do that in my business. then we had, Jane, then we had another Jane who actually went to uni with Abby.

So we knew that they were similar. They’ve both left now, but we got Ellen next. We got someone called Gemma. She didn’t work out. She was lovely. But some, the thing is in with this job is [00:19:00] that. We’ve essentially created an industry in that we do everything a business needs except for accountancy legal, and I’ve got a really weird insurance exclusion.

I can’t attend out calls with clients who are sex workers. So if you’re gonna make a sex tape, sorry, I can’t come and watch. Not massively sad about that part of it, but yeah, so we effectively can do everything, and that’s based around my skillset. So what I needed. Was to find people who had parts of my skillset, who could be me, essentially.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: at the moment we’ve got Abby, Eleanor, Kalee, Neve, Chloe, and we’ve got Nadine starting on a Monday. We’ve got Tom works on a Monday and Friday. He’s my little brother. definitely rage and autism. he’s does video editing for us. But what we’ve done is we’ve essentially created a team of people who have my skillset split between them.

But what’s really cool about what we do is because they’re all a bit spicy. We ask them what they wanna do, what makes you light up? What gives you, don’t mean what excites you. And Katie Wal came to us as an apprentice. She did a digital marketing apprenticeship. And she said to me, I [00:20:00] really want to do websites like Right Crack on.

And now Kate, your, she does all this build WordPress websites and Wix.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: And we just work with what people are interested in because we, I know with me, if I’m chasing the dopamine and it excites me, I wanna keep doing that. So we just let them pick. Sure. We make sure that they have a diverse skillset, but we just let them pick what lights them up and then give them clients that want that it, everybody wins here.

Laurence Pratt: So, I’ve got a couple of questions out of that and I’ve had to write ’em down so that I remember them. but, so, I mean, the first thing that struck me is, when you were saying you, you revenue went up, but do that you employed lots of people. So what was that like for you, with ADHD? Beginning to sort of employ people. did you find that challenging or was that

Stephanie Ward: It was horrific, if I’m honest with you, because, so part of my thing is that I. Can’t tell lies not very [00:21:00] well. So my assumption in the recruitment process initially was everybody is honest. And actually what I’ve learned is that people overestimate their capability, people. We’ll do anything if they think they’ve got a good opportunity, able will do anything to make that work even if it means bending the truth.

And that was a hard lesson to learn for me. My second employee who didn’t last very long, broke my heart because I’d, as part of a, an investigation, I discovered actually the only things that she’d told me that were true were her name and home address and the information I needed to pay had, there was so much, many things fabricated in her application and it to me apart, like I didn’t even in the investigation, I didn’t even confront her about it because I felt like it was my fault.

I should have spotted this. And the reality is, I got through a recruitment agency. At the end of the day, you think, you assume that they’re going to do the due diligence. They didn’t is the answer. So that, that really hurt me. and I think, I. I’m not always the best judge of character, so I think I do rely on having other opinions.

So what I’ve started doing with my recruitment, I [00:22:00] do run things through ai. So I will feed into an AI model and say, this is what I’m looking for. Pick me the best 10 candidates. 

Reviewing Applications and Delegation Challenges

Stephanie Ward: I will also review like applications, like screen them and stuff, and I have a few little things I put in there to see how much attention to detail people have put in.

But I also don’t do interviews on my own anymore, so I will do it with at least one other employee. So that’ll be either Abby or Eleanor. ’cause they’re the most senior members of staff here now. But I think when it was just me having to do these things on my own, I, it wasn’t that I made bad decisions, it’s that I made decisions based on my frame of reference and not necessarily understanding how other human beings work.

And that was a tough lesson to learn.

Laurence Pratt: How was it? I mean, I’m thinking specifically about like the challenges I would find with, bringing people on and then delegating to them becauseI’ve found that, you know,I’m in a process a lot of the time figuring out how to do stuff and it just seems. A lot more difficult to then say, well now that I’ve just figured out how to do this, can you [00:23:00] then do it?and that’s why, when I was, working, previously that, I wouldn’t be able to delegate very well and I’d end up just doing it myself. ’cause I couldn’t get to that stage of giving them enough information so that they could do it well. And then I would, then be able to check it and go, yeah, that’s because I just figured stuff out most of the time.

Stephanie Ward: Well, yeah.

Laurence Pratt: Or winged it rather is what I’m trying

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Struggles with Delegation and System Implementation

Stephanie Ward: I think delegation for me has been something that I have really struggled with. I’ve had a really. Practice at that. And I am terrible at following systems. Before I had a team, I used to use a different system every three months ’cause my brain needed me to change things up.

Laurence Pratt: just before the girls started, I brought in a system on Clickup and I had somebody else help me build it. So I’ve got this whole theory called the newer divergent task, commencement continuum, right? The first 10% of any task is where we get stuck because we don’t have a structure, we don’t have a framework, or we’re just too nervous about the fact that we’re doing something new.

Stephanie Ward: Okay.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: So sometimes just having either a structure framework, SOP, or a [00:24:00] human being to help us get started. Now, the middle 80%, we can do pretty well of most tasks because we are professional figure outers. Okay.

Laurence Pratt: The last 10% is where we get stuck with anxiety, perfectionism or just procrastination towards the deadlines.

Stephanie Ward: So having support in both ends of that I’ve learned is really helpful. 

The Clickup System and Its Benefits

Stephanie Ward: And what Clickup does, it gives me a place to put the tasks in, put the peripherals in, and what can happen is then somebody can come back to me and say, Steph, I need more information on that. Or Do you have this? But it gives us a way to track those as well.

So what’s really good about Clickup is that because other people are using it. I have to stay consistent. So it’s that accountability level for me is having, knowing someone else needs it means that I can use it. So when it comes to giving out tasks, like I’m still really bad for writing things down. I do have a PA who works full time and basically just sits and takes the contents of my brain and gives it to other people.

But it’s really hard for me to get out. And my go-to survival thing is when things are hard, I can’t delegate. I will internalize it. So having [00:25:00] someone who’s outside of me who can go, right, Steph, sit down. What’s in your brain? Right? I’m giving that a Neve, I’m giving that to Abby, I’m giving that to Katie.

I’m taking it off you because you don’t need to be bothering yourself with these things. But having someone that I trust for that is quite hard. I had a situation where unfortunately, previous pa it didn’t work out and there was some quite gnarly stuff happened there, and it took me a while to trust somebody again.

Laurence Pratt: but I can say having Eleanor in house, Eleanor. Knows me really well. In fact, she probably knows too much. Like I can never fire her ever. but because she knows everything about me and how I work and what my needs are, both inside and outside of my job, she can help me to sort of unpick these things and she can say it right.

Stephanie Ward: You, you need to have time. I can see in my diary there was a slot being put in. Tomorrow between 12 and three it says Elna and Steph pa time. I haven’t given permission for that. she’s just gonna grab me and drag me into a corner and be like, do the things. But delegation is still something I have to work really hard at and be very conscious of every single day.

And so you mentioned like working with systems and I, I love the [00:26:00] idea of SOPs and a and I really aim to try and, one, sorted out for any sort of new thing process that I do. Yeah, it can still be difficult sticking to it. And you mentioned like, I wanna change it, every three, three months.

Laurence Pratt: So is that, what’s the answer to that? have you now found a way to make that work consistently? Like, can you give us hope that it’s that, that it is some, there will one day be a system that you can do,with some frequency.

Stephanie Ward: So what I’ll say about Clickup, right? It’s like, so people have tried task things like Asana or Notion, but what’s really good about Clickup, it’s like if Asana and Notion had a baby and that baby had perfect genetics. So you can make it look really pretty, but you can also change how it looks if you wanna have a Trello board this week or similar Kanban board type thing.

You can make it look like a Kanban board if you want it to be a list. It can be a list. If you want it to be a mind map, it can be a mind map. So it gives you the flexibility within the software to change how it looks on the screen. So if you [00:27:00] just, if you are gonna get dopamine from it looking different, you can have several different types of views.

So I have a board, which I have, which has like different days of the week, and I drag and drop things onto the days, so I know when I’m working on it. But I also have just a list view. I also have what I call the client done list. So what does it fill as it by client? It’ll show all the tasks I’ve completed for them this week, but it’ll also show me what’s outstanding just for that client.

So I think, right, I’ve got two hours to work for Bob. I’m gonna put Bob’s board up and see what’s on there, and I can just pick up Bob’s tasks and work through those. So it’s. Giving myself ways of processing the information that’s easy, but also giving myself options for when the, I need the dopamine hit, or I need it to look differently to make it new, novel, exciting again.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah,I’ve come across, clickup, a few times from, Forms that people

have got. and it has been, it has looked to be getting a bit more exciting. And I saw something the other day that I thought,because again, I mean I am for using new toolswhenever they [00:28:00] come out. and I mean, I built myself a notion dashboard for all these things. So it’s. There are limitations in that. it’s quite hard to set up and,there’s a lot to learn, but yeah. So it sounds quite, it’s, yeah, you’ve got my dopamine, blinking now with thinking about, Clickup. so I, there was another thing that I wanted to, so, so I, from what you’ve said, you’ve got this team building up. 

Building a Community and Membership

Laurence Pratt: is that the same thing as the community that you’ve got? How do those two things,link?

Stephanie Ward: Yeah, so, the virtual assistant services has been the bread and butter of my income since 2020.

Laurence Pratt: And it’s consistent. And we get new referrals regularly. We actually have two companies that sort of do it, but we’re busy merging them into one. So Spicy Brain Energy is gonna absorb my other company and just have it all in one lump.

Stephanie Ward: but last year I had this moment where I was like, I’m sick of saying the same thing to the same people every single week, and no one. Sort of action in it. And the girls said, why don’t you have a membership? And then you can just do [00:29:00] sessions with people and they can come and you might get a few of them in a container.

So I wanted to have like a membership and we’ll call it the Bootstrap Business Club, which is essentially building a business on a bootstrap. Here are all of the basic things you need to know. And I put it into heartbeat Chat because I’ve seen Heartbeat and how that works for Leah Turner who’s got the halt.

It’s a very accessible platform. You can put courses, you can put Chatter box, it’s like a Facebook group meets RA meets all these different things, but it puts it into an appie and not fight an algorithm to have people see it. I thought, I’m gonna, I’ll do that. And that was going really well. we run that from sort of July last year and it got to Christmas and I was going through some really tough stuff personally, and I felt really.

Really lonely. And I was talking to my business coach, and I say this to Dan, I was like. I feel like I need to have a free TFE membership. And the thing is with Dan, is that he will say something’s a horrible idea because he doesn’t wanna trigger my PDA. He, if he says it’s a horrible idea, I will immediately do it.

Laurence Pratt: I have a product that’s got a very horrible offensive name. and I called it that because he told [00:30:00] me not to, and the day I did that, I sold 12 of them. So clearly the name appeals to people. but yeah, so I put this free tier of my membership in place and essentially it was like, you can come on a Monday morning.

Stephanie Ward: Get a pep talk. I’ll put all my resources in there and we can just chat. And I got an extra 150 people into that free level in January alone. That then brought me 22 grand of additional revenue because when people realized what I do and how it applies to them, they wanted to pay to work with me. So I actually worked quite well in terms of, funneling my business.

Some people come to the free community, they get their PEP talks on a Monday, and that’s all they ever access,

Laurence Pratt: If we’re working from home and we’re alone, we don’t have that like water cooler chat in the morning. So we’ve created our own water cooler chats, which I love them. they’re really powerful sessions.

Stephanie Ward: We have between seven and 20 people come every week. and considering we’ve only got about 250 people in there, that’s quite an impressive turnout, and it’s different people all the time. I just, I love them. We did a strategy day yesterday, completely free of [00:31:00] charge to all the members where we just come and get excited for the next six months.

Because sometimes you just need to realize that actually you do know what you’re doing. And that’s all we did yesterday was give people a few fresh ideas, but just validating them. And it was great. 

Supporting Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs

Stephanie Ward: But like I said, the membership I made that because we need a community and my community is one of the most protective factors in terms of me looking after myself.

So. When people come into the community, there’s no obligation for them to give us any money. At any point. They can just come and just make friends, make new business connections. Yesterday in the strategy day, there was two people connected because they’re gonna give each other an hour of the time, free each, and help each other out.

People wanted body doubles accountability groups, so they’re setting all that up just between them. My members are creating connections and almost like this little ecosystem of their own, because they just needed. it’s almost like I’m a shaper. I like to think of myself as a shaper, right? If you are gonna climb a mountain, you wouldn’t do that without a shaper because you need someone to keep you warm.

Make sure you’re fed and make sure you don’t fall off the side of the mountain ’cause you didn’t anchor the tent.

Laurence Pratt: my job here, [00:32:00] regardless of whether it’s paid or free services, is to just meet you where you’re at and just help you a bit further along the journey. Nobody who comes to us. Leaves worse than we found them because even our free stuff just gives them at the very least a big hug because I think we all could do with more love.

Stephanie Ward: I think if the world was guided by love a lot more, it would be a much better place to be.

Laurence Pratt: Because I mean, it’s difficult, isn’t it? and I suppose it’s that having that understanding of someone. is in this, a similar thing, place to you, like running a business, but also knowing that what ADHD or Neurodivergence can do to you trying to get things done. ’cause like I speak to people about, what I need to get done and or what I’m not doing. And they’re like, well just do it then. And it’s like, and it and you, then you then sometimes feel like you can’t. Tell them what you are, what you’re up to, because then they’ll just point out the obvious that I need to get on and do it.and then you’re more alone because you can’t, so[00:33:00] it’s, I think it’s really important that, that community element of just, supporting each other. So it

Stephanie Ward: Well, yeah. Having neurodivergent friends, what I’ve learned is that if you say it to your friends, I just can’t get this done. No one is gonna say, you just need to do it. They’re all gonna be like, how can I help you do that to their own detriment half the time because they wanna procrastinate on their own stuff, so they will procrastinate on their things and help you.

I’ve got a prime example of this. 

Personal Stories and Helping Others

Stephanie Ward: So I went to Hollywood on a complete impulse in May, right? I ended up going to LA with one of my mentors and my friend Ben was already going. So it was a long shot. It was. At 8:00 PM on Sunday, I wasn’t planning to travel. By 10 30 I had an Esther. I had my flights booked and I was on Ben’s hotels.

It was very quick. And when I came back from la, I wanted to find no fault with me and I was going through Facebook look, and I found a fault with my ex-boyfriend from 15 years ago. Okay. And when you just think, I’m just gonna look him up. I haven’t done that in decades, but Sure. And I saw that he was in Scotland and running a veteran’s charity.

Okay.

Laurence Pratt: I just, I was going through his Instagram and I liked one of his photos by accident. I was like, oh hell. So I’ve sent this connection [00:34:00] over, we connected and I said, it’s been a minute, it’s been 15 years of minutes, but Sure. And we just had a bit of a chat and. What I realized is he has rage and ADHD,

is probably why we got along in the first place.

Stephanie Ward: And we were just talking. And the more I learned about his business, the more I was like, I can help with that. I can help with your charity. I can do these things. Next thing I know, not only have I taken over his website and started just rebuilding it, me and one of my apprentices is building it for free because it was terrible and we couldn’t leave him like that.

We are, there’s a bunch of us going up to Scotland on the 13th of August to do some work with this business and just love on it. So I’ve managed to convince world class web developers, SEO merchandise people. I’ve got a CIC owner from down south coming all the way from Devon to Aberdeen Sheta to do some work there.

There’s five of us going, and we’re just gonna go and live on the business because we can see that one of our people needs our brain contents. So we are not getting paid for this all, we’re covering our own travel. When we get there, we’re like, we’re just, we’re all just putting in because we know that what we, the value we can give is gonna help one of our [00:35:00] people.

And we know that pays dividends in terms of, recommendations in terms of just spreading a bit of love.

Laurence Pratt: like, literally I’m taking a full week out of my own business to go and help somebody else because I can just see that they need that. So that’s gonna be exciting. That’s two weeks away.

Wow, that’s incredible. 

The Importance of Support Networks

Laurence Pratt: I’m, there was some something that struck me, earlier, like, I mean, dotted throughout the conversation you’ve mentioned, like, I’ve got pa and I mentioned to my business coach and, like, so aside from the people that you employed to do sort of more of the things that you were doing, like, with the web design and the motion design and things like that, what I’m trying to say is that the, some of those that you mentioned were. Sort of the supporting roles in, in perhaps picking up the slack of where,I’m, I’m assuming these are things that might be what you find difficult or what you need help with. and what I want to say is,is quite often, the people that we see in business that have got ADHD that have made a success somewhere [00:36:00] along the line, they’ve sort of realized that.

Stephanie Ward: need to get help and

Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: with the things that they can’t do. And that can be something that’s quite to initiate because you’re like, well, I can’t afford to pay myself, let alone

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: else. so, so how did you get around that and to that point and was that a challenge?

Stephanie Ward: Y Yeah, so I was really lucky. I got an Access to Work grant for a support worker, at a decent hourly rate before they started pairing things back, which meant that I could bring a PA in. but essentially I couldn’t hire somebody until I could afford to, pay somebody properly salaried. so there was a period of time where I was working extremely hard, working really long hours.

And the reason I had to do that was ’cause I needed to make sure I had enough money in to be able to make that investment for the next part. So it’s only been really in the last few years I’ve had that help. my first hire was January, 2023. No, yeah. January. Yeah, I’m having to think of who’s still here.

That’s so bad. Like it sounds like I fire loads of [00:37:00] people. I genuinely don’t. but yeah, so January, 2023 is when I started hiring people. So you’re talking a good halfway into my business so far is before I had another human helping me.

I’d had some coaching, in terms of personal coaching but not business coaching.

And I think the reason I didn’t have business coaching for a while is because I’m quite resistant to other people’s ideas. It’s that demand avoidant autistic side of me. So.once I got an employee and just had somebody else taking the pressure off, I had a bit of time to think, where can I put the help in?

So I got me access to Work grant, and I brought a PA in, and that really helped me to kind of take some pressure off me so I could focus on the right things. Then I think I only employed my business coach last September, because, when you just realize you’re ready for something different.

I’ve had a pa, I had the help. Now I have my PA is salaried. they work for me and they are salaried. But there was a period where I was working myself into the ground to make sure that the work was coming in so I could secure that first employee. And actually, once you’ve got that first one, it is easier after that in terms of once you’ve got someone to lean on.

I mean, [00:38:00] I have still worked extremely hard, nearly every day for the last five years because. There hasn’t been a lot of choice. my business has grown exponentially and I’ve had to put the hustle in. I’m not afraid of the hard work. does that mean I want to do it? Absolutely not. But I think my business is my hyper focus, so that’s why I’ve been so invested in it.

But I absolutely haven’t done this alone, right from my first hire. one of my favorite things to help me get things done when I was on my own was Focusmate. my friend Liz introduced me to that and having that body lin option for a, I think it was a five a month for unlimited at the time, and I’m grandfathered in at that rate, but focusmate and having like these, almost like fake colleagues from all over the world meant that I could, set intentions, get the things done.

And I used to do focus made sessions from eight o’clock in the morning till 10 o’clock at night because I needed to get 14 hours of billable work done in a day.

Laurence Pratt: And like I said, once I had the first one, the rest came much more easily. But there has been periods where, we have kind of been [00:39:00] ready for the next one, but cashflow, oh my, don’t even talk to me about cashflow.

Stephanie Ward: Like, oh, I need to find 90 grand by the end of December. And it’s like, it’s,it could be there or it very much could not be. we’re just hopeful at this point. But, we have had periods where everyone has had to work really hard just so we can get that next bit. And then it eases off for a minute and then it expands again and it’s.

I would like to say that we have a reprieve every now and again, but because we are one of the few people that I can genuinely stand up and say we are specialists in this and actually do a good job. We do have a lot of referrals inwards where we, we are constantly having to hire to cover.the new leads, and it’s a high quality problem I have, but trying to find someone who can do the job is difficult.

And having a neurodivergent staff as well, making sure that everyone’s needs are met and that everyone is compatible on a human level

Laurence Pratt: a challenge. So there’s a lot of balancing goes on. but yeah, I haven’t done this without help. I have absolutely had a lot of support from the people I employ, from, my life of my business coach.

Stephanie Ward: From my friends that I’ve made in business as well. leaning on your friends and knowing that you’ve got people you can say, [00:40:00] oh my God, today was shit. being able to lean on and say that’s what it is, and for them to just be, okay,

Laurence Pratt: let’s talk about it. And just having that support network so that you can go to the next bit or works case now, you’ll have a bath and try again the next day.

I think that’s, I mean, that’s the difference really between. Running a business, creating a business, and creating a job for yourself.

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: I think a lot of people when they first,they think about, leaving whatever job they have, they just want to make a new job for themselves

Stephanie Ward: over here where they don’t have to answer to anybody else. But in reality, when you realize that you want to actually start a business in order to start a business, you’ve got. A, real business, you’ve gotta be able to,

you take yourself out of that and it still work so that you know it’s not gonna fall apart if for some reason you need to look over here and focus on that for a bit.

Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: and so yeah, creating, support and creating that, support network around you is [00:41:00] really important.

Stephanie Ward: It is. And I think as well with Neurodivergence, people say that they understand ADHD, they understand autism, they get neurodivergence. There’s so many big specialists who are saying they can do that, who are actually doing more damage to people. So quite often when people get to me, I am an expensive option for support.

Don’t get me wrong. But by the time people get to me, they’re usually quite traumatized by bad support. And there’s actually a period of time where we have to work really hard in their trust so that they can progress. And that’s really hard and really sad because we trust the wrong people and we end up traumatized.

And the reason I’m expensive because my team need to be supported to unpick that trauma to help people progress.

Laurence Pratt: so where shall people you, in find the community and also,your services from your team? Where can you direct people to?

Stephanie Ward: Yeah, so if you’re looking for me, if you go on the internet and put community dot the spicy brain collective.com, you’ll get a nice little, thingy from our community, pop your email address in, costs you [00:42:00] nothing. But that is the best way to get in front of us because then you can see we’ve got a list of all our paid offerings in there, all our free stuff, and that all our friends are in there.

but it’s just a nice place to be and I, it’s a really good place where if you want to. Be part of something cool, but you just wanna lurk for a while. You can lurk. We don’t care. We encourage lurkers because I know how hard it can be to trust new people. So go in there and look, come in there and have a chat with me.

it’s a really positive space. I can honestly say like the strategy day yesterday, really like. I was quite emotional aspect. I was thinking like, how cool is it that I’m connected to all of these wonderful humans who are all loving on each other? I don’t even need to be there. Like, I’m literally there just to guide them.

They just all love on each other voluntarily. There was one person who was struggling and everyone was like, we’ve got you. You can be honest here. And it was like, oh my God, why is this so beautiful? But yeah, it’s the happiest place on the internet. It really is.

Laurence Pratt: And if they want to. So is there a website for the, I mean, you, I know if they join the community, they’ll see them. But is there a, a [00:43:00] direct link to the website?

Stephanie Ward: Well, you see, I would love to say that there is, but the thing is that I don’t wanna build my own website, which is hilarious. So if you go to the spicy brain collective.com, there is a very basic Link tree style website, which has.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah.

Stephanie Ward: Basic information, but yeah, we just direct everyone in the community.

’cause it means I don’t have to build my own website because I wanna build other people’s websites. Catch phenomenon.

Laurence Pratt: Yeah, exactly. 

Future Plans and Exciting Projects

Laurence Pratt: so just, I mean, just before we go is on the horizon, for the next 12 months? I mean, you said you’re going to, to New York, that’s exciting, but,

Stephanie Ward: Yeah.

Laurence Pratt: is anything exciting that you are working on?

Stephanie Ward: Yeah. so I’m very excited about the charity project in August with my, old friend. I will call him because it feels weird saying my ex, it was a long time ago, like it was a lifetime ago. I’m very excited about that because I think if that’s something we can do there and do well, it’s something we can replicate for other charities and I’m always a part, like I, I’d love to be a part of giving back and sharing.

So if that’s something we can replicate, I think there’ll be at least two more of [00:44:00] those. I am gonna be hosting my own Fringe event, at Atomic on in June. So Atomic On is a big marketing conference that comes to Newcastle. and we have,we sponsored it this year and when we spoke to the organizers, they asked if we would like to do a bit more this day.

I said, oh. Okay, well what’s it gonna cost me? Because also not rolling in cash. And essentially we’ve been offered, the opportunity to do a fringe event, which will be at our cost, but it means that they’ll market it for us to their attendees and they have quite a strong neurodivergent contingent. So this year we we ran a neurodivergent meetup and I put 40 spaces in.

It was a nice cozy space and the 40 places went in 24 hours and people were going mental. ’cause they’re like, why can’t we get on? I was like, oh god. So. Frantic. Elena contacted the mal MAs on trying to add extra capacity, but also still keep it inclusive and also sensory friendly. We managed, we got our 60 places, but this year we’re gonna be doing our very own fringe event, which will have a much bigger capacity so that more spic can come and hang out.

Do I know what that’s gonna look like yet? Absolutely not. Haven’t got a clue. I’ll probably arrange it [00:45:00] the week before, but I’m very excited to be able to bring people together near where I live on my own turf and just. Show them what their potential is, give them new connections and just bring them all in one space for a big love fest effectively.

It’s gonna be great.

Laurence Pratt: Good stuff. Well, it sounds fantastic and I wish you all the best of luck for that.

Stephanie Ward: Thank you so much.

Laurence Pratt: for joining me on the show. It’s been fascinating to talk to you.

Stephanie Ward: Thank you very much. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Laurence: Well there, we have it. Thank you so much for listening this far. If you want to hear more episodes, then please subscribe on YouTube or whatever podcast platform you use. It really helps us spread the word. So if you know anyone, this episode could help, then please share it with your friends. If you want to follow me on social media, I am on Instagram at ADHD underscore goals. And you can find me on Facebook too. If you want to get into touch with the show, then you can email me at [00:46:00] hello@adhdgoals.co And finally, if you’re struggling to manage your ADHD and you would like me to be your coach, then please head over to my website and get in touch. Until next time. Bye for now.